Rockefeller Foundation President Rajiv Shah Wants You to Make Big Bets (Full Q&A)

b: You talk about the importance of “zooming in and out.” How do you manage that in a very practical way?

Shah: You have to be able to go deep and understand really fine detail when you’re involved in a big, complex effort with some urgency — and you have to be able to step way back and see the big picture. I have found the best leaders can do both and know when to do both…

The CDC [Centers for Disease Control and Prevention] had estimated we’d have 1.6 million cases [of Ebola]. We ended up ending that crisis with only 30,000 cases and kept it contained. But we had to go deep into understanding … what is the specific way that people are getting infected from? In this case, hugging, washing, kissing and offering respects to the body of a deceased family member. We were able to come up with a solution from the local community to use burial bags and WHO [World Health Organization]-certified burial teams to remove those bodies in a way that was respectful to families and that prevented that contagion.

But then we had to zoom all the way out and say, OK, what are we trying to do here? We’re trying to protect American communities from getting Ebola, we’re trying to save lives in West Africa and we’re trying to contain the economic fallout from what could have been a massive global pandemic.  We had to negotiate with other countries and negotiate across the aisle in the United States between Democrats and Republicans. So, we had to be able to zoom in and zoom out.

b: You use Bill Gates’s simple question to you (“What does it cost to immunize one child?”) as an example of how rudimentary facts power complex solutions. What are ways to arrive at this mindset?

Shah: There were 600,000 kids dying in poor countries [from rotavirus], no kids dying in wealthy countries, but the vaccines were going to be available only in the wealthy countries. [Bill and Melinda Gates] said, “That’s wrong.”

And so … the goal clarity that allowed Bill’s simple question [was], “How much does it cost to vaccinate a child? And how much if we multiply that by 104 million children born every year? How much is that going to cost, so we can get about the business of raising that capital?” That led to that logic. It really gets to understanding what the solutions are and what data and information and evidence supports the effectiveness of those solutions.

I find that in the social sector and public service and philanthropy, it can be too easy sometimes to just sort of do things and feel good about doing them without being as rigorous about measuring results.

b: What advice would you give people who are in the private sector and still want to be affecting positive change?

Shah: The private sector is essential to solving any of the world’s big, hairy problems from climate change to hunger to preventing future pandemics. In all of those cases, it’s private-sector entrepreneurial energy, innovation and capacity that will invent the tools … and bring the business discipline — especially around measuring results — that makes it possible.

We partnered with Unilever to bring soap into slum communities. You know, they are advancing their business, selling soap; it just turns out, as you’d expect, that washing your hands reduces the kinds of illness that can be debilitating to kids. We work with 25 big food companies trying to move 50% of their supply chain to regenerative agriculture.  We work with battery chemistry scientists who are coming up with the next generation of stationary storage. We work with AI experts who are doing remote management of energy systems and grids.

You’ve just got to be able to communicate and help people see that … we’re all working on the same mission.

b: You write that a “no” from potential partners can be a sort of roadmap to their interests. What’s the best way to discern a “roadmap no” from a “hard no”?

Shah: I think the best way to know the difference is to understand the values and intention of the person you’re working with. Some people will say, “OK, I share your goal, but …”  That’s different than someone who says no because they don’t share your objective.

I write in the book about an effort to build a large-scale hydropower dam in the Democratic Republic of Congo, which would have brought electricity for the first time to more than 200 million people in Africa, many of whom live in poverty and it would have changed everything. In that case, The president of the country was not going to be an effective partner. We just didn’t share the same objective with the same urgency and the same mindset. It became clear that wasn’t going to work and that didn’t work. That’s one of the failures that I write about and hope I and others can learn from.

b: What are some big bets that you’re excited about right now and that the private sector should be aware of?

Shah: Our big bet right now at the Rockefeller Foundation is a billion-dollar commitment to fight climate change, backed up by a commitment to walk the talk and to bring global actors together to raise our level of ambition. The good news is, there’s a lot of ingenuity out there. The bad news is, the transition is not happening fast enough and it’s not happening in 70 or 80 countries that, over time, will account for 75% of global emissions and will threaten our planet even if we successfully transition, say, the U.S. economy and the European economy.

If you’re an investment manager, manage your investments in a way that works towards net-zero carbon emissions by 2050, which is a sort of global standard that we’re all aspiring to. If you have operating businesses, figure out how to reduce carbon emissions. There are science-based targets that have been established to offer a roadmap for you on how to do so. And frankly, depending on what industry you’re in, invent the future in a way that will save our planet. For food companies, that means less processed, plastic-wrapped foods and more natural, healthy and sustainable agricultural production.

There are a host of partners that can help you do that. For young professionals at these companies, that would be such an exciting mission to be a part of and you put yourself on the edge of the future. The leaders of tomorrow are going to be the leaders who know how to win in a sustainable marketplace and a sustainable global marketplace. That example can be replicated across every industry and it’s a matter of seeing the opportunity as a business opportunity, not as a “corporate social responsibility” activity.

b: What’s the most effective way to distill information so that it will be compelling and useful to people with a broad range of interests?

Shah: To me, I think being clear about the goal you’re trying to achieve, explaining why it’s important and giving people a sense that there are fresh, innovative solutions that can help us achieve them as a way to break through the cynicism and the disbelief that you can palpably feel when you say, “Hey, I’m going to work on helping 100 million people move out of hunger sustainably.” If you say that, people say, “Gosh, that doesn’t sound possible.”

Then, we had a path and a plan for how to do so. We’re going to invest in agricultural research, support farmers to improve their crops and rely on local production as opposed to shipping people food. That pathway over years delivered the result. We saw it because we measured it and we could prove it. I think you can take fairly complex and big goals and break them down into fresh, innovative solutions and a clarity of results. I found people react well to that.

b: When you’re hiring, you seek out people who are resolute in finding solutions to this century’s challenges. What experience do you look out for in a candidate that signifies they possess this quality?

Shah: When I started years ago, I always looked for people who are super-competent, who were well-credentialed, smart. I know we still need people who are competent, but [now] I care much more about, are people agile in their thinking. One of my colleagues used to call them “athletes,” but are they able to pivot and be adaptable to the environments we’re working in?

Because the pace of change has accelerated quite dramatically and will only continue to accelerate. So if you don’t have people who are also agile, you can’t really meet the moment you face, whether you’re in a division of a big company or you’re at a startup — or, in our case, at a storied philanthropy.

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